Censorship

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Censorship

Postby Mortis » Fri Aug 11, 2006 17:51

While there are very few things that are truly able to make me get on my toes, but when it comes to members of the society mistreating the concept of "freedom of expression" in a way that bypasses its philosophical requisites, it's bound to happen.

However, I must admit first-hand that eventually there may be little reason to actually discuss censorship, as reaching a cohesive conclusion in a discussion of this type can be very difficult. Merely starting to define the subject is difficult. Despite these apparent pitfalls, I believe it's timely to discuss the subject in a manner that leaves us something to bounce back from. Black on white, and not in a PSP ad. I also apologize for entering a dubious area of discussion that may yield discussion that is not suitable for everyone or might offend someone's values, whatever they may be.

The (admittedly) childish initiative for this post came when I recently stumbled upon a discussion regarding a practically non-existent "sex" scene in a game. While the existence of such a thing in a game in itself wouldn't warrant for any kind of discussion, the tone of discussion and its progression in the forum eventually prompted me to react.

Here's a broad description of the situation I mentioned beforehand; I don't want to link to the actual discussion so that it works better as an example: Greater detail is of no issue here.
  • Game X has a "sex scene" that can be accessed by playing well.
  • Player A wants to know how to access the "sex scene".
  • Player B tells him the "sex scene" is not explicit or even visible.
  • Player B tells how to access the "sex scene".
  • Player A comments on the "sex scene".
  • Administrator A states that the forum is all ages and discussion of sexuality is not allowed.
  • Player B notes that the sex scene is not explicit or visible at all, and that the game is both ultraviolent and has an ESRB rating of "mature".
  • Administrator B enters the discussion and tells that there is no room for discussion of rules.
  • Player C enters the forum and says he lets his 6-year old kid see the game (that is violent and bloody) up until when you can see boobs with tassles.
  • Player C is American.
  • Player D retorts that in Japan, while there is lots of censorship, you can find anything you want if you search hard enough.
  • Player D is Japanese and says he loves it.
Let us only retain the train of thought in the discussion and otherwise leave the example behind; I only brought it up to reveal a certain hypocrisy regarding content control and censorship, nothing further.

For the sake of being able to discuss the issue, I believe you can broadly generalize three-four different approaches to censorship (regulation of violence and sexualized content in entertainment and art) around the world:
  1. Pan-European: Content shies away from "ultra"violence but tolerates both sexuality and violence to some extent.
  2. Except German, where nazis, blood or boobs generate horrible ruckus.
  3. Pan-Asian: Ultraviolence is fine, and sex is shown but bare essentials are covered by strange censorship laws, like for Player D in the example.
  4. American: Ultraviolence is fine, but sex and religion are super taboos, like for Player C in the example.
I believe such a list might require some elaboration (just so I don't get any extra heat): All I'm trying to establish here is that there are different regional approaches to controlling content.

Armand also commented just moments earlier, based on a Flash animation, about how we are clearly living "at the extreme end of a Hegelian phase". Is he correct about that? Moreover, how do you feel about my division of geographical censorship? Any corrections, additions or gripes regarding it?

What about your opinion of censorship? What goes, what doesn't? How do you deal with the philosophical idea of limiting free speech or expression? I'll probably elaborate more on forms of censorship if we get any posts. I'm especially hoping Rax and Armand find time to respond.

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Postby mushy » Sun Dec 03, 2006 00:47

which medium were you even discussing, games? i just dont like the parents who will buy their kid anything to shut them up then get pissed when their cd nanny turned out to be grand left auto so they decide to sue. grow a brain people and the kid might stand a chance for not growing up to be a rapist. but other than that give the people what they want. also when did religion become super taboo? i thought it was the europeans who were so fucking scared of it

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Postby Armand » Mon Dec 04, 2006 01:49

That was before the over-religious populace migrated to the New World. I believe you call them the "founding fathers"

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Postby mushy » Mon Dec 04, 2006 20:52

Armand wrote:That was before the over-religious populace migrated to the New World. I believe you call them the "founding fathers"


but i believe the conversation was video games. what ever kind of censorship they had back then doesnt really interest me

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Postby Armand » Mon Dec 04, 2006 22:01

To be honest this whole conversation doesn't interest me~ I just dip in where I consider my expertise necessary

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Postby mushy » Mon Dec 04, 2006 22:18

Armand wrote:To be honest this whole conversation doesn't interest me~ I just dip in where I consider my expertise necessary


has anyone ever told you what a pompous asshole you are?

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Postby Armand » Mon Dec 04, 2006 23:19

Mushy dear, you are so predictable~

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Postby mushy » Mon Dec 04, 2006 23:30

Armand wrote:Mushy dear, you are so predictable~


..like you havnt said the same 4 things the whole time ive known you either

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Postby Armand » Mon Dec 04, 2006 23:45

Our difference lies in the fact that I march triumphant while you keep repeating the same errors

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Postby mushy » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:27

hrmm no i really cant relate to the things you say.. and i have a hard time believing you can either

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Postby mushy » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:07

by andro666 on 11-08-2004 @ 05:28:21 AM
bush is whore. im not american and just say this here for the humanity's sake and for those americans that come here with their head full of lies and ignorance. "the truth will free you"


see what i mean.. this was on a lou reed lyrics page no relation to anything. i use to want to leave this country but it only seems like people are this stupid everywhere!

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Postby Armand » Wed Dec 06, 2006 16:43

Yes I don't think people are clinically much smarter or stupider around the world, in the long run at least. Just so happens to be that americans have fallen for that bush regime crap for now. Could've happened anywhere and will probably happen too, many european countries are falling for it as well.

I think part of the original reason why european people got angry (now for most it's just venting out all kinds of anger on an easy target) was that america is the closest to us, compared to the rest of the world. You guys look like us and dress like us and live like us and most of us understand what you're speaking. You're first world like us, and thus "supposed to be" free of the kind of obvious bullshit regime crap that has always been normal in russia and china and most of the world. Disappointment, you see? But these things always go in circles, and it might well be that while you guys have learned the hard way (as can be seen from the recent election results), we haven't. People are only beginning to fear the terrorists, muslims, wmds and other made-up crap here. Will see if we too need to fuck up before the lesson gets through.

So don't move anywhere if you're only looking for smarter people. Try changing things instead if you're not happy with them.

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Postby mushy » Thu Dec 07, 2006 19:17

i think from this very spot i sit. the further east you go from here the stupider people get

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Postby Armand » Thu Dec 07, 2006 19:18

Remember that the world is round~

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Postby mushy » Thu Dec 07, 2006 19:41

Armand wrote:Remember that the world is round~


so are rubber balls

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Postby Armand » Thu Dec 07, 2006 19:54

Armand wrote:

Remember that the world is round~


so are rubber balls


Good point

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Re: Censorship

Postby Armand » Wed Feb 07, 2007 00:38

Ok, my opinions on censorship? Let's see, I'll think about that once I finish watching this clip of dogs-on-pregs Mr. Green

*cough*

Aaanyway... Your geographical division does sound right, although from what little I know the european and asian parts might oversimplify a little. Many western european countries have ongoing debates regarding censorship, and it seems the debate is taking different directions in different countries. For now though, the policies seem to be somewhat similar. The eastern european countries aren't really able to regulate effectively so their policies don't count Very Happy

And about Asia, well... doesn't what you said apply to Japan only? When I check out movies in the IMDB I often linger a moment on the global rating lists just to get an idea of how it goes generally. So far I've got the picture that for example Singaporeans heavily regulate what their people get to see, while South Koreans aren't as picky. The more fundamentally islamic countries are probably shit harsh, but that is to be expected (and I dunno how often they'd go see movies anyway Confused).

But the difference between Japan and US is enough to spark conversation! Like, wtf mate. Everyone knows japs have the wackiest stuff going on, even though they seem like quiet little ants marching in perfect order. Americans on the other hand are less regimented and don't seem to require such extreme särness in their entertainment. Even their extreme stuff is kinda lame, overdoing stuff isn't easy if you want to avoid turning it into a joke. Consider exploitation movies for example - the best known american ones are half jokes, while their japanese equivalents are hella disturbing. In general.

I began to think about that line I supposedly said about us living close to the turn of a Hegelian phase... I mean I still feel like it quite strongly. However, considering certain changes in my mental innards, I'm not sure that means the same thing anymore as I probably meant it to mean back when I said it Shocked I'd also like to define the statement better - I believe we are nearing an alignment of the turns of several very important cycles. (Sorry, I just love bolding the obvious.) There's as many cycles going on as one can think of, and the phases are turning all the time, but I think a convergence of sorts is coming Cool

And the philosophical aspect to censorship itself? Well. Since I work with kids, answering that gets a little tricky. I recently read about a discordian society that was strongly against ageism - in that context it means the notion that age has something to do with one's capability to decide about one's own business - and I'm still unsure of what to think. It's easy to say that kids shouldn't be shown certain sorta material because it'd fuck them up. However, I think that is only true in our society. Kids aren't really given the chance to form a realistic picture of how the society works. They are lied to, things are presented to them as simplified and fluffened out versions. They can only judge things based on that fluffy picture we give them, and that's not enough to be able to process stuff like hardcore porn or extreme violence.

Sometimes when I look at parents, it seems that they try to make their kids into cute little cherubim in a perfect little imagined world of fluffiness Embarassed And as they are momentarily unable to take the pressure of the world, they look at their silly kids toddling around, and smile. Not saying that's bad or anything, just that it might not be all that rational to let kids live in the fluff? (Boy do I like the word "fluff", or I kinda hate it, but same thing kinda! Boy do I like the word "kinda", btw!)

So err, the point was that "in a perfect world" censorship shouldn't be done and wouldn't even be necessary. And by perfec t in this case I mean something that I believe can be achieved. It wouldn't be all pure and without problems, but it'd be hella good at processing the problems (instead of hiding and shunning them) and maintaining a natural balance of every aspect of life. Death is (an undeniably inevitable) part of life, sex is a (fricken important) part of life, blood is a (very critical) part of life, and so on and so on. Oh and about naughty words, I don't think they need to exist! Every bad word you can think of in based on some sorta fucked up part of our society. We can't openly discuss sexuality, race is a taboo, shit still smells rly bad, and people's mothers can be nasty and fat people. That's about the extent of the variety of nasty words one can fling at other people (in the West, that is - Vrap, wanna add an Eastern viewpoint?)

Ok, all this and it's still just ambiguous bullshit. I guess the "conclusion" on my part would be that out of principle I'm against all and any kind of censorship, but for the time being, we have to resort to it. However, I do think the ones responsible for censorship atm are fucking retards and should be like f***** a**** s**** g** n***** ****ed. Yeah.


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