What are your thoughts about bringing up a child, or if you don't have any thoughts there, an animal?
(I'll just state my question here and make a personal answer in a post below to make it easier to read)
Upbringing
Upbringing
Just thought this'd be an interesting topic.
What are your thoughts about bringing up a child, or if you don't have any thoughts there, an animal?
(I'll just state my question here and make a personal answer in a post below to make it easier to read)
What are your thoughts about bringing up a child, or if you don't have any thoughts there, an animal?
(I'll just state my question here and make a personal answer in a post below to make it easier to read)
He's not heavy, he's my brother.
I think the whole upbringing system today is too loose, we let the kids today do too much on their own, it's great to be able to stand on your own, but kids do need someone to look up to and tell them what to do in certain situations. This happens in school too, teaching from the master's desk is more or less gone. Kids are expected to learn on their own (atleast here in Sweden), and i think we can see a result even now, more kids are having problems today with reading and learning than ever.
He's not heavy, he's my brother.
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nobile
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I have no experience raising kids, and what I've seen with my dogs is quite interesting =D
Cuál, our "first" dog was taught very strictly, every time he did something wrong we would ground him and all that... He even learnt tricks! =D Then we had Schatzie, she grew up with him so he kind of taught her all the stuff, we didn't bother in teaching her not to pee in the house or anything, she just caught it all from Cuál. Cuál died and then we got Blomma, Schatzie wasn't able to teach Blomma anything and now Blomma has become very rebel and tricky and does bad things all the time. Of course, Cuál's character was like he was very calmed and wise, while Schatzie's is more of a nice one, we've always talked of her as a Blondie, she's very pretty to look at and she's very sweet, but she's not of the smart type ;P Now Blomma, that dog is very smart, she's smarter than Cuál, that dog really impresses us, she can free herself from the lace we put her when we ground her in just a few minutes! And it's not like the lace is very loose...
So the lesson we learnt was that The first dog when being taught, is able to teach the other, but the one that was taught by the first, can't teach the other one =D
Cuál, our "first" dog was taught very strictly, every time he did something wrong we would ground him and all that... He even learnt tricks! =D Then we had Schatzie, she grew up with him so he kind of taught her all the stuff, we didn't bother in teaching her not to pee in the house or anything, she just caught it all from Cuál. Cuál died and then we got Blomma, Schatzie wasn't able to teach Blomma anything and now Blomma has become very rebel and tricky and does bad things all the time. Of course, Cuál's character was like he was very calmed and wise, while Schatzie's is more of a nice one, we've always talked of her as a Blondie, she's very pretty to look at and she's very sweet, but she's not of the smart type ;P Now Blomma, that dog is very smart, she's smarter than Cuál, that dog really impresses us, she can free herself from the lace we put her when we ground her in just a few minutes! And it's not like the lace is very loose...
So the lesson we learnt was that The first dog when being taught, is able to teach the other, but the one that was taught by the first, can't teach the other one =D
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder <3
I don't have experience raising kids either, though I've been a school assistant and kinda study the stuff for now.
I think the biggest problem currently is not the way parents or teachers raise the kids, but the way society raises the kids. There's an old African saying that goes something like, "it takes the whole village to raise a child." This means that no matter how "good" the parents are at parenting, the outside influence still plays a major role. Recently some have claimed that this influence would actually be greater than that of the parents. Be that as it may, I'd say that the worst influence at the moment is the greed and materialism culture of ours. Not violent games or movies, not sex, not drugs, not rock'n'roll. Those are all just consequences, and great at filling the vacuum left by missing values.
I think the biggest problem currently is not the way parents or teachers raise the kids, but the way society raises the kids. There's an old African saying that goes something like, "it takes the whole village to raise a child." This means that no matter how "good" the parents are at parenting, the outside influence still plays a major role. Recently some have claimed that this influence would actually be greater than that of the parents. Be that as it may, I'd say that the worst influence at the moment is the greed and materialism culture of ours. Not violent games or movies, not sex, not drugs, not rock'n'roll. Those are all just consequences, and great at filling the vacuum left by missing values.
Re: Upbringing
Now that I'm again working in the said field, I'll again add my (devaluated) two cents (shit, only got eight left now). Dear God, make it stop.
Erm, surprisingly enough I still agree with my previous post. However I'd like to point out another thing that might be just my problem, but still. It also ties in with the previous post. As many annoying kids (read: smarter than their peers) and some adults have noticed, keeping the peace and order in a classroom is based primarily on bullshit. When a kid asks why they should do as told, answering "Just because" or "Because I said so" equals taking the first steps towards a hellhole that is very hard to crawl out from. Kids need reasons, they aren't stupid. Although most of them will submit just out of fear of authority or just because they have better things to do than argue about it, they will remember if something is based on a rational reason or just authoritarian bullshit. Fear doesn't work with everyone, either - the fearless and/or the stupid. Later on, during puberty, all of this will come out with force.
This ain't no news for most, though. "Sure kids need reasons, just tell them and be done with it!" Suuure. That might work, why not! But I have this problem, and as said, it might be just personal, but... I often notice that I can't explain things to the kids without lying more or less. I mean, I don't really believe in studying to get a better job to be better able to provide for your wife (past and present) and three kids (plus the one that lives with your ex) and to be a respected member of the society, belonging to a church you don't believe in but you know the history of. Stuff like history or biology or physics have a very fickle connection with reality in my books. How can I honestly tell them that they need to waste their best years on it? Sure, I'm exaggerating a little, but just a little, and less than you'd think.
The other side of peacekeeping bullshit is charisma. By it I mean the full scale of less rational, or rather, less quantitative things that nevertheless have an effect. It includes one's looks, size, voice, smell, manners, skills and especially confidence. I call it all bullshit because it's kinda silly to believe someone just because they have a booming voice or they're half a meter taller than you. Confidence is just borderline bullshit, though. It can be faked, to an extent, but you also get it from being honest with yourself.
Thus, I've had the best results, specially in the long run, by being honest and saying that things need to be done as we tell them because that's how they'll work nicely with least problems so that we all have more time to play in the end. If someone goes against the grain it'll be worse for everyone, that person included, although if they have any better ideas they can be considered. Another effective method (that can be combined with the aforementioned one) is poking their conscience. Most kids still have theirs... But as said, the conscience only takes honesty!
Erm, surprisingly enough I still agree with my previous post. However I'd like to point out another thing that might be just my problem, but still. It also ties in with the previous post. As many annoying kids (read: smarter than their peers) and some adults have noticed, keeping the peace and order in a classroom is based primarily on bullshit. When a kid asks why they should do as told, answering "Just because" or "Because I said so" equals taking the first steps towards a hellhole that is very hard to crawl out from. Kids need reasons, they aren't stupid. Although most of them will submit just out of fear of authority or just because they have better things to do than argue about it, they will remember if something is based on a rational reason or just authoritarian bullshit. Fear doesn't work with everyone, either - the fearless and/or the stupid. Later on, during puberty, all of this will come out with force.
This ain't no news for most, though. "Sure kids need reasons, just tell them and be done with it!" Suuure. That might work, why not! But I have this problem, and as said, it might be just personal, but... I often notice that I can't explain things to the kids without lying more or less. I mean, I don't really believe in studying to get a better job to be better able to provide for your wife (past and present) and three kids (plus the one that lives with your ex) and to be a respected member of the society, belonging to a church you don't believe in but you know the history of. Stuff like history or biology or physics have a very fickle connection with reality in my books. How can I honestly tell them that they need to waste their best years on it? Sure, I'm exaggerating a little, but just a little, and less than you'd think.
The other side of peacekeeping bullshit is charisma. By it I mean the full scale of less rational, or rather, less quantitative things that nevertheless have an effect. It includes one's looks, size, voice, smell, manners, skills and especially confidence. I call it all bullshit because it's kinda silly to believe someone just because they have a booming voice or they're half a meter taller than you. Confidence is just borderline bullshit, though. It can be faked, to an extent, but you also get it from being honest with yourself.
Thus, I've had the best results, specially in the long run, by being honest and saying that things need to be done as we tell them because that's how they'll work nicely with least problems so that we all have more time to play in the end. If someone goes against the grain it'll be worse for everyone, that person included, although if they have any better ideas they can be considered. Another effective method (that can be combined with the aforementioned one) is poking their conscience. Most kids still have theirs... But as said, the conscience only takes honesty!
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Darkelth
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Re: Upbringing
Hehaw, I have no experience in raising kids, except a week job trainings in elementary school and kindergarten. The first thing isn't a big surprise (I don't think one should have kids at the age of 16 
). But yeah. I can also tell about the cats we have over here! (4!)
As I was in a kindergarten, the kids were quite fun actually. The teachings weren't so big things, just taking care of the children so they won't do any stupid things and such. Nevertheless I feel like they were already manipulated by the society and/or the culture of ours here in Finland.
1) They really hadn't this: "Do wrong and learn from the mistakes" things. Like they couldn't climb on a tree and fall there and be more careful next time. They were quite much controlled all the time (which however isn't such a surprise. I reckon that the town doesn't want to have any surprises of taking care of the kids, when they have all the responsibility of them when the parents are at work).
2) The taboos. We had a 3-year-old little girl over there, who had just found out what is the genitals of females called in Finnish. She liked to say this "pimppi" quite many times. And then she was strongly told not to say it out in public. You can find out the same taboos coming up again on the last grade of compulsory school over here, when the pupils are taught about sexualism. Somehow it is very hard for people to say "vagina" or "penis" when they are reading the books out loud.
I see a connection between the early life when people strongly tell children not to say these words in public, and the life later. The children then feel like they had done something terribly wrong, when they see how strongly the parents and others had reacted. Then in later life, they still have the feeling like it is a word that cannot be said straight.
As Mestré Bimbá said when he was here in Tampere teaching us capoeira: "When you see your child moving closer to a cliff, and he/she is falling down, don't let your child see that you are really afraid of what is happening, and shout out loud "Noooo! Don't go there!". You should silently just catch your child, so he/she won't sense your fear, and because of that, get afraid of the cliff himself/herself." I see a connection.
About the elementary school then. The class was, well... Quite hard to keep silent. They asked quite many things, and tried their borders. Perhaps I should have read Armand's post here before the first lessons
And about the cats then. We have four cats. The first one, Tiku is like the mother of all the cats here, though he's really he. He takes care of all the cats and keeps the cat society not falling apart! He's the cat we taught everything to do. The second cat, Tino, is like the anchorite. He's the shyest, most silent and always against the newcomers. When Taku, our lady cat came, he was real close to attack her and stuff, but Tiku kept care of Taku. Taku then is the princess. She is the friend of everyone, and was taken care of Tiku. These cats were all taught by Tiku. Then there came Tedi, our Holy Birma breed cat. He's a real dickhead so to speak. Come on, he's like he's the master. When all the other cats are operated so they can't get kittens, our dickhead isn't, which makes him feel like he's the king. But because he was taken care of Tiku in the beginning, because Tino was so against him, as was against Taku in the beginning too, Tedi feels that Tiku is higher in the hierarchy than he is. But because Tino has come to the house earlier, he is also above Tedi, but Tedi cannot accept it because he's not operated. And Tino won't give the place to Tedi. Because of this, we need to keep these two cats always seperated from one another, so they won't kill themselves. Yesterday, a door was accidently left open, and in 5 seconds they had their teeth in each other's throats. Kinda complicated
). But yeah. I can also tell about the cats we have over here! (4!)As I was in a kindergarten, the kids were quite fun actually. The teachings weren't so big things, just taking care of the children so they won't do any stupid things and such. Nevertheless I feel like they were already manipulated by the society and/or the culture of ours here in Finland.
1) They really hadn't this: "Do wrong and learn from the mistakes" things. Like they couldn't climb on a tree and fall there and be more careful next time. They were quite much controlled all the time (which however isn't such a surprise. I reckon that the town doesn't want to have any surprises of taking care of the kids, when they have all the responsibility of them when the parents are at work).
2) The taboos. We had a 3-year-old little girl over there, who had just found out what is the genitals of females called in Finnish. She liked to say this "pimppi" quite many times. And then she was strongly told not to say it out in public. You can find out the same taboos coming up again on the last grade of compulsory school over here, when the pupils are taught about sexualism. Somehow it is very hard for people to say "vagina" or "penis" when they are reading the books out loud.
I see a connection between the early life when people strongly tell children not to say these words in public, and the life later. The children then feel like they had done something terribly wrong, when they see how strongly the parents and others had reacted. Then in later life, they still have the feeling like it is a word that cannot be said straight.
As Mestré Bimbá said when he was here in Tampere teaching us capoeira: "When you see your child moving closer to a cliff, and he/she is falling down, don't let your child see that you are really afraid of what is happening, and shout out loud "Noooo! Don't go there!". You should silently just catch your child, so he/she won't sense your fear, and because of that, get afraid of the cliff himself/herself." I see a connection.
About the elementary school then. The class was, well... Quite hard to keep silent. They asked quite many things, and tried their borders. Perhaps I should have read Armand's post here before the first lessons
And about the cats then. We have four cats. The first one, Tiku is like the mother of all the cats here, though he's really he. He takes care of all the cats and keeps the cat society not falling apart! He's the cat we taught everything to do. The second cat, Tino, is like the anchorite. He's the shyest, most silent and always against the newcomers. When Taku, our lady cat came, he was real close to attack her and stuff, but Tiku kept care of Taku. Taku then is the princess. She is the friend of everyone, and was taken care of Tiku. These cats were all taught by Tiku. Then there came Tedi, our Holy Birma breed cat. He's a real dickhead so to speak. Come on, he's like he's the master. When all the other cats are operated so they can't get kittens, our dickhead isn't, which makes him feel like he's the king. But because he was taken care of Tiku in the beginning, because Tino was so against him, as was against Taku in the beginning too, Tedi feels that Tiku is higher in the hierarchy than he is. But because Tino has come to the house earlier, he is also above Tedi, but Tedi cannot accept it because he's not operated. And Tino won't give the place to Tedi. Because of this, we need to keep these two cats always seperated from one another, so they won't kill themselves. Yesterday, a door was accidently left open, and in 5 seconds they had their teeth in each other's throats. Kinda complicated
If you want to be happy for a day, drink alcohol. If you want to be happy for a year, get yourself married. If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, start gardening. - An old Chinese aphorism.
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Nickelplate
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Re: Upbringing
I think the more we try to be "progressive" and change crap around, the further we get from where we should be, because:
1. We change things for the sake of change, so nothing stays around.
2. We do away with things that WORKED simply because a newer (and possibly buggy) version has been released. Of course that is a software metaphor but it counts for education as well.
All my jobs in the past 9 years that I have been working have been for educational institutions. One job was in a kindergarten - 12th grade school district, and the current one is for a college. Having gone through all 13 years of the school, then working at one for so long after and going to the university at the same time, then working at one thereafter has REALLY given me a longer perspective than most my age on how education has changed over the years.
There has been a HUGE shift on "letting the kids learn at their own pace" instead of trying to get everyone to accomplish the goals together. When i was in school, we had everyone in a class to learn the same things at the same time, with a small contingent of smarter kids who got bored and started acting up, so they kept them busy with extra learning.
Now we have classrooms where there are NO books that are made with paper. It's all e-books. So that the children can learn how to use business machines.
Education has shifted from a preparation to succeed in the manner that you choose when you're older to a simple mass-production of corporate "business machine users" with the occasional exception of those whose parents have money and can groom them for upper-level management. In this case its just a "specialty product" instead of the mass-produced version of the worker we see normally.
1. We change things for the sake of change, so nothing stays around.
2. We do away with things that WORKED simply because a newer (and possibly buggy) version has been released. Of course that is a software metaphor but it counts for education as well.
All my jobs in the past 9 years that I have been working have been for educational institutions. One job was in a kindergarten - 12th grade school district, and the current one is for a college. Having gone through all 13 years of the school, then working at one for so long after and going to the university at the same time, then working at one thereafter has REALLY given me a longer perspective than most my age on how education has changed over the years.
There has been a HUGE shift on "letting the kids learn at their own pace" instead of trying to get everyone to accomplish the goals together. When i was in school, we had everyone in a class to learn the same things at the same time, with a small contingent of smarter kids who got bored and started acting up, so they kept them busy with extra learning.
Now we have classrooms where there are NO books that are made with paper. It's all e-books. So that the children can learn how to use business machines.
Education has shifted from a preparation to succeed in the manner that you choose when you're older to a simple mass-production of corporate "business machine users" with the occasional exception of those whose parents have money and can groom them for upper-level management. In this case its just a "specialty product" instead of the mass-produced version of the worker we see normally.
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